Pharmacy Inside Jobs: the pharmaceutical industry (transcription)

The audio transcript from this episode of The Pharmaceutical Journal’s PJ Pod.

Dawn: Hello and welcome to Pharmacy Inside Jobs, the PJ Pod series which aims to inspire you to take the next step in your career. Whether you’re a pharmacy student, wondering which direction to take, or a seasoned pharmacy professional, our goal is to provide insights into the increasingly diverse roles that are opening up within the profession.

In each episode, we’ll be joined by a guest to explore their career journey so far, with a focus on their current role, and the opportunities, challenges and rewards that it brings. We’ll also find out what skills are needed to succeed in the role and how others can follow in their footsteps.  

I’m your host Dawn Connelly and in this episode we welcome to the pod… Sanjay Gudimetla. Sanjay’s worked within the pharmaceutical industry for around nine years and is currently senior medical affairs manager at Jazz Pharmaceuticals. He’s also a qualified final medical signatory, and if you don’t already know what that is, you’re about to find out. Before moving across to the pharmaceutical industry, Sanjay gained his independent prescriber qualification and worked within clinical practice, including roles in community pharmacy, primary and secondary care, so he’s got a great perspective on the pros and cons of each sector. And given that he does now work in the private sector, I suppose I should say that the views he expresses in our chat are his own and don’t necessarily represent those of his past or current employers.

Dawn: Shall we get started then? Thanks so much for joining us, Sanjay. On the PJ Pod today. So maybe you could just start off by introducing yourself.  

Sanjay: Yeah. Hi, Dawn. Thanks for having me. So, yeah, I’m Sanjay Gudimetla, currently work as a senior medical affairs manager at Jazz Pharmaceuticals. Pharmacist by background. 

Dawn: Okay, brilliant. I was hoping that today you might be able to demystify some of the roles that pharmacists have in the pharmaceutical industry. So, perhaps you could start by telling us what the purpose of a medical affairs team is and what role you play in that?  

Sanjay: Yeah, sure. Thanks for a really good question, Dawn. 

I think you’re absolutely right. I think there’s a lot of maybe misunderstandings and some misconceptions about the role of pharmacists in the industry. So, yeah, I work within medical affairs, which is one function within a pharmaceutical company. And the primary objective is to really provide clinical and scientific support for the products that the pharmaceutical company manufactures and then promotes and really being that medical face for that company. 

So medical affairs, in essence acts as a bit of a bridge between the industry and the wider medical community. So, you have to build and maintain relationships with key opinion leaders, so influential HCPs in patient groups for example. And ultimately, the role is to help prescribers make informed decisions to help benefit patient care. 

So within that, you have to work cross-functionally with internal colleagues, so the likes of marketing, market access, public affairs, sales, training departments. And that’s to essentially help effectively link science and commercial activity together. So then that’s a broad overview.

Dawn: Yeah, and can that be quite tricky sometimes linking together that sales aspect I suppose. 

Sanjay: Yeah, sure. So I think the first thing to really hammer home is medical affairs isn’t about sales per se. It’s more focused on the science. And you do have to have some commercial understanding and interest because you’re working for a company that markets its products, no doubt. But as a pharmacist, you’re a medicines expert and you have that clinical knowledge and that scientific expertise all the way from the university days through to practicing maybe in the hospital, community or any other sector within pharmacy. 

So it’s really ensuring that what you do around the product is coming from that scientific angle. And medical affairs roles are non promotional as they call in pharma. So, promotional roles are ones that you might see going and doing the sales side of things. So for example your sales reps. But medical affairs wise, you’ve got that responsibility to make sure that any information’s clinically and scientifically accurate. It’s fair. It’s balanced.

So yes, it may be tricky in the sense of having to work around certain challenges, but your role predominantly is to make sure that patient care is maintained and improved.  

Dawn: And what do you think would happen if your roles didn’t exist? If you see what I mean?

Sanjay: I mean, I think medical affairs is a really broad role, and it has an important role within pharma in terms of what it’s meant to be demonstrating as an output for health care professionals and patients. So I think without that role, there would potentially be a risk to patient safety. And part of that is actually because you as a medical affairs function have to ensure that you’re utilising your products in a safe and effective manner. 

So it’s a really important role. There’s a lot of value to having pharmacists in medical officers. And I think if the role didn’t exist, then that would propose quite a significant challenge to the company.

Dawn: And I think you said that you were a final medical signatory. Have I got that right? Yes. 

Sanjay: Yes, that’s right.

Dawn: Perhaps you could tell us a little bit more about that role and what that involves.  

Sanjay: Yeah, sure. So a medical signatory in the broad sense checks the medical accuracy of scientific materials and arrangements of various content to make sure it’s all accurate, fair and balanced. 

And again, that’s to ensure that you’re complying with legal ethical standards which are in the API code of practice. So UK pharma acts to self regulation. And it’s important for the final medical secretary who can either be a UK-registered pharmacist or a medic, or in the case of dental products, a UK-registered dentist. And it’s really to make sure that anything that you sign off, that’s all accurate and that can go into the market and ensure that patient safety is not compromised. 

And again, it’s to help prescribers make those decisions around clinical data and how they can translate that into their own clinical practice. So it’s a really important role. It’s a really responsible role. And part of that involves having to get trained and assessed to the ABPI code by the company. So it varies depending on what company you work. 

Everyone has a different procedure, but there’s an element of training. And then there’s an element of having to pass an exam or competencies before you’re allowed to go and do the signatory aspect. And you get registered with the MHRA and you have to get registered with the PMCPA who are, essentially, the Prescriptions Medicines Code of Practice Authority, who administer the code at arm’s length in the ABPI. 

Dawn: Okay. And how long does it take to qualify as a medical signatory?

Sanjay: Yeah, it can it can vary. I mean, when I did my medical signatory training, it took about a year. And part of that was getting exposure to reviewing various kinds of materials. So the signatory role is very broad in terms of what you get exposed to, so there’s promotional materials which might be sales aids, which the sales reps go to discuss with healthcare professionals.

They might be patient materials where you’re looking at disease awareness for a particular condition. So it’s really varied and the ABPI code is a number of different clauses. So, you have to become an expert in those and understand how you can utilise them in your day-to-day practice. 

So as I say, it varies depending on the company, but usually, that’s something that the company will explain to you before you start on the final signatory course, and sometimes they expect you to do a period of review beforehand. And I think having worked in both hospital and community and a bit of GP practice in the past, it’s similar to how you’re expected to… if you’re doing dispensary work, you’re expected to do accuracy checking logs for a period of time before you become a final checker on your own, and someone signs off after you.

So, it’s a similar principle in that way. And, you probably follow the MEP as a pharmacist when you’re reviewing prescriptions, and with the ABPI code, in my view, is a similar principle.  

Dawn: Yeah. So that’s the medicine’s ethics and practice guide, isn’t it?

Sanjay: Yeah, exactly. 

Dawn: So you mentioned there signing off things. Does that mean that the buck stops with you? And is that quite a high pressure role?

Sanjay: Yeah. So as a final medical signatory, you’re accountable for doing the activity or signing off that particular material, whether that’s aimed at patients, whether that’s aimed at health care professionals. 

So, yes, you are you are accountable. And I sometimes say it’s no different to signing off a prescription. If you sign off a prescription, you’re held responsible if anything does go wrong. So, there is pressure… essentially when you’ve got so much responsibility, but because you’re trained and you get experience… I think it’s similar in a way to when you first start off signing prescriptions and you take the medicine out of the bag maybe ten times to check it is the right thing. 

And then over the years, you start to do it a bit quicker. So yeah, with experience you get faster. And, you have to find that ground between making sure it’s ethical, legal and you meet all the code requirements, alongside ensuring that you’re comfortable signing it off. But there’s a lot of stakeholders involved in that decision as well, from concept through to final delivery of either that material, project or activity. 

But yes, you obviously import into that from an early stage. And then your final signature is essentially you saying, I’m happy for this to be released into the market, for example.  

Dawn: And in terms of medical affairs, what sort of activities do you get involved with?  

Sanjay: Yeah, it’s really broad. So in terms of medical affairs activities, medical education is a key one. 

So educating health care professionals on a disease area or diagnostics for example, also really, enhancing their knowledge, helping run trials so they can be phase IV trials or, perhaps, even giving an input into earlier phase trials. You run advisory boards, which is essentially a mechanism to try and get input on, perhaps, a really important question to the business. 

And you might be doing that with health care professionals or patients, per se, and also training is a big component, so training your sales force on the clinical data on the SPC, working with your marketing colleagues to come up with marketing campaigns that are both clinically and commercially relevant but also maintaining patient safety at the same time. 

So it’s really broad. And you go to conferences both national and international. So, I’ve had the opportunity to go from the likes of Dubai to America to Malta to go and gather insights and then bring them back in-house to see how we can utilise those insights. It’s really broad. And that’s why it’s really interesting because you’re learning something new every day and you are having to overcome challenges on a regular basis. 

Dawn: And do you need any other specific training or qualifications to work within the pharmaceutical industry? I know when I was a pharmacy student you’re always told if you want to work in the industry, you need a PhD. Is that true now? Was it true then? I don’t know.

Sanjay: It’s really an interesting question because even when I was at university, that was the understanding I had that you either need a PhD or you needed a first or you needed to go and work in R&D, that’s kind of my understanding of it back then. 

But actually those are all quite myths, if I’m being honest, because I know individuals who have done pre-reg and then transferred into pharmaceutical straight away. In my case, I did a few years in clinical practice, both within the NHS and primary care as well, before transferring across, and I think for those who have an interest in doing a PhD or an MBA, I think it’s great. 

And it’s great to expand your horizons and your skillset, no doubt. But it’s not a requirement to enter the pharmaceutical industry on that front. And I think, interestingly, when I was looking for alternative pharmacy careers, moving away from clinical practice, I actually read an article on the PJ about moving to medical affairs. 

Yeah, ironically. So, it gave me a really good understanding back then as these are the types of things that pharmaceutical companies may look for in terms of skills and requirements, but also it gave a good understanding of what the role involves. And I think there’s always transferable skills as a pharmacist because the pharmaceutical industry discovers, researches and markets medicinal products predominantly and pharmacists and medicines experts. 

So there’s a bit of an alignment there straight away. But when you’re working in clinical practice, you have to work in multidisciplinary teams. Likewise when you’re working in the pharmaceutical company, you work within cross-functional teams. And those skills around good communication, being solutions oriented, working under pressure, they’re all transferable. So I think that’s what’s most important, as opposed to these buckets of you need to get a PhD or get a first for an example.

Dawn: Yeah, we’ve mentioned a few skills and qualities there, are there any other skills that you think are particularly useful for your role?  

Sanjay: Yeah. I think as a pharmacist, you’re obviously a clinical expert in medicines usage. And I know when I worked in hospital, one of the first things you do when you go into the ward is work out creating clearances, as an example. 

And you’re tackling polypharmacy in that. So, automatically, you get a broad understanding of different therapy areas and how different drugs work. And when you move across to the pharmaceutical industry, your predominant focus on the drugs that company has an interest in or manufactures or market. So those clinical skills that you’ve obtained from your other areas of work or from your university, or maybe even doing clinical diplomas, they’re really useful for working across different therapy areas and having that understanding. 

And in my job now, I don’t do crafting clearance on a day-to-day basis. But as a medical signatory, I might have to utilise clinical knowledge around renal impairment in terms of assessing claims for that medicine. So there’s a bit of overlapping in that regard. And I think being really solutions focused is another important skill. 

And if I think back to my days in clinical practice and seeing interactions between two or three drugs, you have to find alternatives to those interactions, right? You can’t just turn around and say, no, you can’t use any of these drugs. And it’s the same in pharma in a way. If you come across a challenge, you need to try and find solutions around it. 

And I think as a pharmacist, you have that skill set and you’re equipped to do that personally. So I think that’s another really important skill to have.  

Dawn: I was wondering if you could describe maybe a challenging situation that you’ve been in your role in how you dealt with that, just to give people an idea of what sort of things that you get tasked with. 

Sanjay: So when I worked in the NHS, one of the rotations I did was in medical information. And I think in medical information, when you’re working in clinical practice, you’re involved in giving a lot of advice and dealing with lots of different situations. And when I transferred into the pharmaceutical industry, one of my first roles when I initially started was in medical information. 

And it’s a very different type of role. So, the challenge with medical information in pharma, or should I say the kind of principles around it, are that you try and provide fact. You can’t give advice, you have to tell the patient to go back to the treating healthcare professional. So I recall in my early days, I had a phone call from a patient, and they really wanted me to give advice because they realised I was a pharmacist and it was just really challenging for them for me to explain to them that I can’t provide advice. 

I can only give them guidance from maybe the patient information leaflet and then go back to that treating health care professional for that relationship that they’ve already got. And it was only through patience and explaining the situation that they eventually agreed to that. But I think as a pharmacist, you’re seen as that face, aren’t you? 

If you go into a community pharmacy, you can walk up to the counter and ask for advice on anything. But when you’re doing that similar type of role in pharma, you’re bound by a few of the regulations and restrictions.  

Dawn: Yeah. And how do you find that balance between, I guess, the traditional patient-facing role and the more corporate, parts of the job, like, do you miss the patient contact or do you have any patient contact now? 

Sanjay: Yeah, I really enjoyed the patient contacts when I worked in the NHS, and also in retail and GP practice. I think that was a very different job to what I do now, no doubt, but I think for me, in this particular medical affairs component of pharma, you still do have interactions with patients. So, sometimes you may have to do advisory boards with patients, which essentially involves you trying to get advice on a specific topic. 

You might do disease awareness campaigns with patients where you get expert patients in to talk about their conditions and how they’re managing with it. So there is still that patient interaction. Yes, it’s not the same as previous work that I used to do, no doubt, but you can still make a really meaningful difference to patients. 

And I think that’s what’s rewarding about working in the pharmaceutical industry because it’s not a case of you being away from patients. You still maintain that patient interaction. And the overall objective is still to improve lives, as many patients by improving their disease management. So for me, you still get that, just in a different, slightly different way, if I’m being honest. 

Dawn: Yeah. I was going to ask about the most rewarding parts of the role. Is that what you’d say for that then?  

Sanjay: Yeah, I think that being able to influence that at a top level is really the most rewarding because when you bring out new medicines, there’s a lot of work that goes into it to bring it to ground level, whether that’s through market access activities or marketing campaigns or insight gathering, things like that… that is it all done to make sure that the right patients end up on the right track and you maintain patient safety? 

So to me, being able to do that at a more strategic level and at an earlier stage than what I used to do, is definitely the most rewarding. And I think the beauty of pharma for me has been that when I worked in NHS, you got to work in MDT teams, so multidisciplinary with doctors, nurses, physios, a large range of great people and you still get to do that in pharma because you work with all the healthcare professionals both internally and externally, but you also get to work with people from other disciplines and backgrounds. 

So scientists, people with more marketing background and you work with all of those guys to achieve the same goal, which is to improve patient outcomes. So, for me, that’s really rewarding. 

Dawn: And is it quite a full-on career. Are you working a lot of hours a week? 

Sanjay: The actual hours… I work is 37.5 hours, which is the same as I was doing in the NHS, to be honest. And it pretty much mirrors most clinical contracts as far as far as I’m aware. There’s no weekend working. There’s no on call working. So for me, that’s a big plus because I can enjoy my weekends. 

I can enjoy my time off. And I think, there’s obviously going to be some times when you might have to be a bit flexible and work out of hours, but it’s few and far between. And when you’ve got a supportive team and you’ve got all this helping out with that, it’s not so difficult. I would say. 

And I certainly don’t miss doing on calls and waking up in the evenings.  

Dawn: Did you have any preconceptions about the pharmaceutical industry before you went into your role?  

Sanjay: Yeah, I mean, I had an open mind to pharma because I wanted to try out an alternative route rather than the traditional route. 

So I’d done my prescribing course, and at that point I decided I want to try something a bit different. So I had an open mind to it. And apart from The Pharmaceutical Journal article, some of my own research, what kind of helped me was having a specialist recruiter for the pharmaceutical industry. So, I got my initial entry into pharma through a recruiter who gave me a bit of an oversight into it. 

But, I didn’t think or should I say, I didn’t have the awareness back then that there was so much regulations, and even when I was moving from the NHS, I remember some of my colleagues asking me if I was going for a sales job, because I think you get used to seeing sales reps selling and that’s just the nature of the pharmaceutical industry. 

But there’s just so much more that happens behind… that there’s all these lots of different functions with many, many varied roles and different tasks. And I don’t think I fully appreciated that looking from when I was a pharmacist because to me, pharma back then was… they call them and promote medicines and that type of thing, I didn’t realise. 

Dawn: Yeah, that’s the part, you see I suppose as a practicing pharmacist, isn’t it?

Sanjay: Yeah, exactly. And I think when you’re at university, you do a lot of formulation labs, right. So you make products. I think I used to make all the mouthwashes and creams…

Dawn: And suppositories, that’s what I remember.

Sanjay: Yeah, whereas that’s probably what I used to think pharma was. I still think it’s R&D. And I remember when I was at university, I applied to specials lab to get some experience in pharma, and that’s all I knew back then. I didn’t realize that there was a medical affairs function or any of the other functions. So yeah, I think for me that was a big, change when I moved across. 

Dawn: Yeah. And just to go back to your career path, you mentioned that you have worked in clinical practice. Could you tell us where you worked and how you got into the industry?

Sanjay: Yeah, sure. So initially I did my pre-reg in hospital. And once that finished, I had a stint working as a community pharmacist for a short period of time. 

And then I moved back into hospital. So I worked at Wigan hospital, actually. And it was a really good hospital. Loads of rotary colleagues and people. And I think the beauty of that job was I got to rotate through a lot of different therapy areas. And that helped with my clinical knowledge. 

But, it gave me a good grounding into different conditions. And that’s always been helpful. So I did my clinical diploma while I was there, and I also did my prescribing while I was there. But at the same time, I used to do some locum work both in primary care and GP practice. So, I’ve seen both primary and secondary care from that lens. 

And then, yes, as I said to you earlier, once my prescribing finished, I decided that I wanted to try a nontraditional role. And that’s when I entered into the pharmaceutical industry through that. But I think having worked in clinical practice, that gives you a really solid base and a platform to build off. 

Dawn: Yeah. And what would you say for people that are interested in going into the pharmaceutical industry and they’re perhaps working in clinical practice at the moment.  

Is there anything they could kind of do to improve their chances of getting the role or where should they look specifically for roles?  

Sanjay: Yeah. So I think firstly, LinkedIn is a great place to network and get in contact with people who are working in the pharmaceutical industry. And, I have that quite a number of times to be fair. 

There’s a lot of proactive people who are keen to move. And my advice is always be patient and do your research because you have to understand the role that you’re going for. I think sometimes, some people might jump to certain assumptions, and if you can speak to someone while networking with them on LinkedIn, that’s a good way to try and do it. 

Number one, have a look at things like Indeed, there’s always job postings on there. Try and see if you can see anything that matches your credentials. There is actually a company set up by a pharmacist called Gina. She set up a company called PharmAffinity, which is a good networking hub for those looking to transition into the pharmaceutical industry. 

So, if you’re looking for some mentorship or networking opportunities, that’s a great place to have a look at. And I’d also say some people are really focused on medical affairs. And there’s lots of different roles in medical affairs. Sothere’s MSL, which is medical science liaison, there’s med advisors, there’s senior medical managers like I’m doing at the moment. 

And sometimes the competition’s so tough because you’re not just competing with pharmacists like you might do for a Band 8 or a Band 9, sorry, Band 7 or Band 8, for example. You’re also competing with other disciplines and people with experience, so you’ve got to be patient, but that might be an opportunity for you to look at different areas within pharma. 

So for example, pharmacists work in regulatory affairs. They work in compliance. Some of them work as sales reps. So there’s a large number of different avenues that you can trial to try and get into pharma. If you’ve been unsuccessful with medical affairs for a while, there’s nothing stopping you trying for all the other roles because again, there’s transferable skills and those departments. 

Dawn: Maybe you could briefly tell us a little bit about what some of each one of those are. 

Sanjay: Yeah, sure. So obviously that sales reps as everyone knows, their predominant focus is to go and promote and market the products of the pharmaceutical company wants them to, and you get exposure to that when you’re working as a scientist, right?

There’s compliance, which is making sure that the internal workings mirror the ABPI code or ensuring that any external legislation is brought in and utilised internally, like SOPs or working practices, for example. And you have people working in public affairs, which is to do more with ensuring that you’re getting a voice at government level and working in that area, for example. 

But I would always keep the door open because as I say, pharmacies are in different bits of pharma, no doubt about that. And there’s a good opportunity for you to go and start your career somewhere in pharma. It doesn’t have to be medical affairs, you know? But then you can always transfer to another department, and it’s quite fluid, and there’s always opportunities to grow and develop in other areas. 

So yeah, I’d be keeping the door open.  

Dawn: That’s good advice. I was going to ask about the career progression, is there a set pathway? Because it’s very structured, say, working within the NHS. I just wonder what it’s like within the pharmaceutical industry.  

Sanjay: Yeah. You’re absolutely right. So obviously in the NHS you have your banding system, An Agenda for Change or any of the progress through that. 

In pharma, it is quite fluid. It’ll depend on the company. But certainly in medical affairs, I joined as a medical affairs officer. And then I progressed to medical manager and then senior medical affairs manager, which is kind of my current role now. So the progression is definitely there. It depends on your interest and what you want to do. 

So some pharmacists I know do a couple of years in medical, for example in medical affairs, and then they might want to do a stint in marketing. You don’t have to do that. You might want to, you might not want to. Whereas some pharmacists progress all the way through medical. So they go all the way from that entry level role to the top of the medical director-type role. 

While some others might want to stay in the MSL role. So the MSL role is predominantly what they call field based, which basically means you’re building relationships externally predominantly with those key opinion leaders that I described a bit earlier. And some people enjoy doing that. Going in and discussing new scientific developments or raising awareness, for example. 

That you can just progress as a senior MSL and go through that and as an MSL management role, for example. So you can either do management roles or non management roles. And the other beauty for me in pharma, certainly in terms of career progression, is that you can get involved with global roles. So one of the great things that I found working is you might be doing work in the UK one day, but you might be working on a project with colleagues in Spain the next day, and that’s something that I found really interesting when I was moved into pharma. 

Being able to have that global challenge and also opportunity, because you get to learn about different healthcare systems in different countries. And those global roles are possible as well, if that’s what you’re interested in, if you want to go to another country and try. So yeah, I think that’s definitely a unique proposition of working in Pharma.  

Dawn: It sounds like a really interesting job with loads of potential. Is it a career that you would recommend then?  

Sanjay: Yeah, I think having worked across different sectors now, both in the NHS, GP practice, retail, pharmacy and pharma, I would definitely recommend it because I think you can make a lot of difference and you can make a meaningful difference. 

You get to work with great people. Every day is a different challenge. You get to learn so much and it’s also very rewarding at the same time. And I’ve really found a great work–life balance as well. That’s never really been that much of an issue. Yes, there might be the odd challenge, but on the whole, I think it’s been a really great journey for me. 

So yes, I would certainly recommend the pharmaceutical industry for pharmacists.  

Dawn: Do you think you’ll ever make a return to clinical practice?  

Sanjay: Erm… that is a tricky question because I like to always keep my door open and you never know where things… because things can be unpredictable. But I think in pharma now, I’ve been in it so long and, I’m really happy with what I’m doing in Pharma. 

And I’ve still got a lot to learn and develop in pharma. So, I think that’s my focus certainly for now. And the NHS is obviously great. It did a lot for me before I moved into pharma. And, it’s something that I’ll always hold close to my heart. So, I don’t want to say never, but equally, I think for now, pharma is my focus.  

Dawn: Perfect. Well, thanks so much, Sanjay. I really enjoyed hearing about all of that. It’s really opened my eyes to the pharmaceutical industry.  

Sanjay: Thanks, Dawn. Thanks very much. 

Dawn: Thanks so much to Sanjay for sharing all of that insight about working in the pharmaceutical industry. When I was practising as a pharmacist, I always found the industry a bit of a mystery in terms of the opportunities available and the skills needed to be successful in those roles. I think for me, the two big takeaways were: you don’t need a PhD to work in the industry and it is possible to achieve a work–life balance! 

I hope our conversation helped to demystify this kind of role for anyone contemplating their next career move. It did sound like there are plenty of opportunities out there for pharmacists. 

That’s all for this episode of Pharmacy Inside Jobs. I hope you’ll join us for the next one.